Need Files Chown'd Or Chmod'd ?

[Joe]

Some scripts, Gallery in particular though there are others, when they create files, create them owned by the "apache" user. This means the end user can't delete these files unless the script itself has a function to delete the files. This results in quite a few helpdesk tickets asking us to chown (change owner) files created by these (somewhat) badly written scripts (would it be so hard to add a delete function too?). To put it bluntly, this isn't our problem, we didn't write the script, nor install it, and we didn't endorse it or sell it.

So starting today (05/01/2005) we are instituting a $10 chown fee. If someone needs files chowned because a script created them then there will be a $10 charge. Just open a ticket and give us a list of files to chown and who to chown to, and then pay a $10 fee for the extra service. There's an order form located here: http://hostpc.com/index.php?option=content...&id=52&Itemid=2 (http://hostpc.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=52&Itemid=2)

[Joe]

Menalto has a script here:

http://gallery.menalto.com/modules.php?op=...wdownload&cid=6 (http://gallery.menalto.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=6)

It may work, it may not... we can't be responsible in anything funky happens.

Joe

[rmcb5]

This is not good news.

[dbmasters]

Well, it will likely be a good kick in the direction of getting users to figure this simple type of thing out for themselves rather than creating a helpdesk ticket to repair a user error. Learning is always good...

[rmcb5]

Originally posted by dbmasters@May 2 2005, 03:35 PM
Well, it will likely be a good kick in the direction of getting users to figure this simple type of thing out for themselves rather than creating a helpdesk ticket to repair a user error. Learning is always good...
Quoted post


Then can you shed some light how via DA you can chown a folder or file?

Some of these "problems" come from scripts are installed via installatron and the average user isn't going to have any control over what happens.

I mean every user should have this ability via their account and while it is clear in DA how to chmod a file or folder I have never found where you can chown either.

[Joe]

The problem isn't Installatron or DA, it's the script itself... specifically, gallery takes the liberty of changing the ownership of the files to APACHE, rather than YOUR user id. Thats the part that's "not right"

I have never found where you can chown either.

There's absolutely no reason any script should ever change the ownership of a file. Once it's changed out of your username, you have NO control over it.

[rmcb5]

I wont debate it with you, but I just think the price is steep. However, if the point is to stop the installation of these bad sripts it should work. Leaving these files in installatron is probably a bad thing as well. If there are these known issues why not remove them?

[dbmasters]

it's never a problem if you delete the files via the same script that uploaded them in the first place...

[Jeff]

Originally posted by rmcb5@May 2 2005, 04:56 PM
Leaving these files in installatron is probably a bad thing as well. If there are these known issues why not remove them?
Quoted post
Scripts that are installed by Installatron can also be uninstalled via Installatron.

[rmcb5]

Well I think one of my recent referrals is about to bail on you guys because of it. Not a big loss to you, but embarrassing for me.

[Joe]

I'm sorry to hear that. To look at it from our perspective:

If the program is functioning properly, there's no reason for ownership of the files to change. If the script wants them owned as apache, fine - why is there a reason to change them to anything OTHER than apache? Usually there isn't.

If the script isn't functioning properly - thats not really our fault, it's the script author's fault.

There are plenty of "cleanup" scripts provided by places like Gallery. They publish these scripts because they know the original script they wrote was buggy and would require extra intervention.

From our point of view, since it's not a problem with the server, and it's definately a 3rd party application that caused the issue, we're inconvenienced to have to login to the servers and change ownership. This takes time away from other projects and development of HostPC, and thus the reason for the fee.

Now, if someone is going to leave us because of a third party script that works, but doesn't allow you to change ownership of files to something else (still nto sure why this is necessary) - instead of looking at HostPC's proven 6+ year track record, well, there's really not much I can do except wish them luck with their future host. The script will continue to change ownership of files at any host.. it's the way the script is written

Please be sure to have them contact us via the helpdesk for a refund and cancellation of their account.

[rmcb5]

Like I said, I understand it, but the price seems steep and I think there should be a little slack for the new folks.

He is still deciding, and knows how to contact you to cancel or to get any questions answered.

[dbmasters]

While I hate to see anyone leave, and I certainly hope nobody does, people need to understand that if they learn how to manage their web sites, and all the scripts involved, the fee could be $1,000,000 and it wouldn't matter cuz they wouldn't need to use the service. The service is only payed for due to a user-generated error, and $10, hardly a lot of money...just a couple fast food meals...

[mrshiney]

Let's not pretend like there isn't a good reason to have files/folders owned by apache. This allows you to make a file/folder writeable by the web-server that is not vulnerable to a clever user who happens to be hosted on the same server.

If the files/folders are owned by your userid then you have to make them world writeable which is obviously a problem.

IMHO the best solution is to make writeable folders and files have a group of apache but keep ownership yourself. That way you can give group write access.

[Rich]

I've used this script:

http://freshmeat.net/projects/webadmin/

(webadmin.php)

To work through some issues myself. This has kept me from having to create a help ticket in the past.

Too bad DirectAdmin does not have full file functionality or I wouldn't need this script.

When this script hasn't solved a problem for me, I've simply created my own to do something specific. If a php script created a problem, then a php script should be able to undo the problem! ;)

Don't send me questions about this script, I'm simply an occasional user with it.

I upload it to my server, use it, then delete it so I don't leave it laying around where someone else can do damage with it. :)

[Joe]

Originally posted by NHFTRich@May 11 2005, 01:04 PM
I upload it to my server, use it, then delete it so I don't leave it laying around where someone else can do damage with it. :)
Quoted post



EXCELLENT practice to get in the habit of!

[hoopty]

Sweet script. Works like a champ! Thanks NHFTRich.

Jesse

[mrshiney]

Originally posted by NHFTRich@May 11 2005, 02:04 PM
I've used this script:

http://freshmeat.net/projects/webadmin/

(webadmin.php)

Quoted post


Does this script allow you to set the group of one of your files/folders to 'apache'?

[Osipof]

Originally posted by NHFTRich+May 11 2005, 11:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NHFTRich @ May 11 2005, 11:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I've used this script:
http://freshmeat.net/projects/webadmin/

(webadmin.php)
Quoted post
[/b]

Thank you for the script, it worked like a charm, saved me $10 :D :D

<!--QuoteBegin-dbmasters@May 2 2005, 02:35 PM
Well, it will likely be a good kick in the direction of getting users to figure this simple type of thing out for themselves rather than creating a helpdesk ticket to repair a user error. Learning is always good...
Quoted post
[/quote]
Sometimes it has nothing to do with users I have about 10 website I certainly know how to CHMOD a file, it is the scripts and sometimes not.
I don't use scripts cause most of the time script have old version I upload manually but for some unknown reason sometimes the permission revert to apache (with all respect to Joe perhaps a wrong setting in server). Example today I installed a forum CHMOD all folders and files to 777 except one folder which the ownership was set to apache why I don’t know, contacted helpdesk and was redirected here.

As for the CHMOD fee, $10 per incident! I don’t think is fair, it is too high; a better option would be $5 to $10 per domain.

[ryan]

Originally posted by Osipof@May 12 2005, 07:32 PM
Sometimes it has nothing to do with users I have about 10 website I certainly know how to CHMOD a file, it is the scripts and sometimes not.
I don't use scripts cause most of the time script have old version I upload manually but for some unknown reason sometimes the permission revert to apache (with all respect to Joe perhaps a wrong setting in server). Example today I installed a forum CHMOD all folders and files to 777 except one folder which the ownership was set to apache why I don’t know, contacted helpdesk and was redirected here.

As for the CHMOD fee, $10 per incident! I don’t think is fair, it is too high; a better option would be $5 to $10 per domain.
Quoted post


It's more of an issue with CHOWN then CHMOD. Somehow something changed that direcotry to apache. It needs to be done by either you manually or by some kind of install/configuration script. Just uploading your files won't chown a directory. Once the ownership has moved away from you then it requires whomever has that ownership to CHOWN it back to you. Thats where Joe or Nick have to step in and fix it, And that is what the fee is for. Their service. The scripts that are mentioned are free and CHMOD these files for you. I havn't looked at the code to see how they do it but it will give a directory owned by apache a CHMOD 777 and then you can delete it. The free scripts work, so in all actuality you should never have to pay the $10. Unless somethign really gets bungled up...

[mrshiney]

Instead of CHOWN, isn't CHGRP a better option? Keep yourself as the owner and set the group to apache. Then you can give write priviledges to the group level (which makes the file/folder writeable only by you and apache) while still being able to delete the file...

If this script can do 'chgrp apache' I'm all over it...

[psiu]

That script there, how do you use it?


Or a link to a page explaining this stuff would be good.

Tried putting on the server and running it, but it just puts a bunch of text on the screen with some boxes, but nothing useable.

Okay definition time:

"putting on the server" : uploaded to my root directory

"running it" : clicking on it in directadmin file manager


web n00b

Trying to get it working as some of my Coppermine files won't come off and Installatron apparently got upgraded and doesn't recognize the install anymore;

and installed SMF with Installatron today and attempted to upgrade from within the forum software and it needs something or another chmoded.

Thanks

[mrshiney]

The frustrating thing about the script is that it can create dir/file with uid/gid apache/apache but it CANNOT do chgrp/chown!

Joe- seems like $10 to do a chgrp is a little excessive. Maybe allow a couple per user for free?

[MikeD]

Is this policy/fee still in effect? The link to the chown request form is broken.

[admin]

Wow, this thread is like 2yrs old ... no, it's not policy any longer - open a helpdesk ticket.

Thanks

Joe

[kkip]

DA file manage has a "reset ownership" link that appears for any file that does not belong to the user. This link will change the file owner from Apache to your user. This works well for a few files but is a pain in the a$$ if there are a lot of files to change. But at least there is a way for site owners to do this themselves. :thumbUP

[Sean]

DA file manage has a "reset ownership" link that appears for any file that does not belong to the user. This link will change the file owner from Apache to your user. This works well for a few files but is a pain in the a$$ if there are a lot of files to change. But at least there is a way for site owners to do this themselves. :thumbUP

You should be able to do it to all files by selecting at the directory level.